Diposting di forum Jerman
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
Eye contact
diposting oleh T Y di forum Jerman
Ethnic minorities will use eye contact as soon as it becomes evident that they are talking to non-Germans, and finally can take a deep breath and relax. Living in Germany as a visible minority can be suffocating for some. German staring and avoidance can wear you out after a little while. Many Germans look away when we, minorities, look them in the eye because they feel caught staring at us.
Whenever I'm back in Canada, I'm reminded what's normal, and it restores the faith in white folks. Lol. It's not the race, but it's the upbringing that makes us who we are.
Not that kind of scene
diposting oleh John Lovejoy di forum Jerman
@ T.Y.
Na, no Neo Nazis from what I could tell.
Just regular people, …housewifes, students, business people….all just riding the tram home from work.
Wasn’t that kind of scene.I notice this a lot, that many ethnic minorities keep their head down in Germany and avoid eye-contact.
I am white so they don’t know I ‘m not German unless I speak.
You have to actually seek eye contact first to make a connection.
Hailing from the States where this is nonexistent, you can’t help noticing the evasive and sometimes submissive behavior because it’s so odd.
At first I wondered whether I was imagining it …until I learned why.Young Germans too
diposting oleh T Y di forum Jerman
@John, first of all, Bravo for doing the right thing. It takes extra courage to speak up as a foreigner in Germany.
Since we are swapping stories, I got another one. I got on the subway in Berlin, then I noticed there were 2 more Asian guys that looked like Vietnamese immigrants. And with me being an Asian, god forbid, 3 Asians all in one subway car, that was too much to handle for Germans. A bunch of teenage German girls started insulting us by saying stuff like, eeewww, why do we have so many Asians in Germany, they can't even speak German let alone English, too stupid to learn another language. they should stay in elementary school, etc, etc.
I can relate to the African gentleman you were talking about. He could have said something, but there also could have been neo nazis on the tram, and the situation could have been a lot worse than a spit. I also pretended to be a tourist and ignored it because it was packed with other Germans who didn't say anything to the girls. just felt bad for the other Asians who probably have no other option, but to stay in Germany for the rest of their lives. And because they are in Germany, they kind of have to take it because that's how it is in Germany though everyone knows it's wrong.
My personal experiance
diposting oleh John Lovejoy di forum Jerman
@ Partric Esso
I can very much relate to your account.
When I was in Bremen on the City Tram, an African gentleman got up from his seat and offered it to an old German lady so she would not have to stand.
She spat at him…. right on his chest.
And yelled in German that she doesn’t need it and especially not from someone like him.
“ ….Und schon gar nicht von so was wie du, phui”
I could not believe what I saw.
She continued to stomp and mutter insults at him whilst he put his head down and sat back down on his seat.
He did not defend himself and just took it.What bothered me more were the good 20 -30 people fully aware of what was going on and pretending not to see or just looking on.
I could not stand it….
And shouted at all of them ( not rudely just loud enough so that they could clearly hear me) .
“Shame on all of you for watching and saying nothing.
She (the old lady) is a lost cause and can’t help herself but all of you should know different”
They all stood there like sullen offended Zombies.
The whole scene was just awful.
You have to see it to believe it.When I have to go to a government office or bank for something important, I often ask one of my German friends to come with me.
Wearing a suit and speaking Hoch Deutsch is best.
-No snide little remarks
-No giving me the runaround
-No indignant offended attitude.
-No arrogance
-It’s all smiles and helpfulness ….saves you so much trouble.
Of course not everybody is like that, but I am tired of playing lottery hoping to get to deal with a normal person.
It should not be question of getting lucky.racisim as part of the Germanic system
diposting oleh patrick eso di forum Jerman
@T . Y & ich Liebe Deutschland,
To support you guys, I personally have gone through all that staring at in various places while then living in Germany.One of the occasions I was coming back from work with a local cumuter train I used regularly ,was a 4year old girl standing with the mother waiting on the platform at the station.She shouted very loud Mama "scharma Nigger".....the quickly try to cover her mouth immediately.what can I say then , nothing but adult education at home.By the time you guys must have lived there for 15years or more, you will experience personal racisim in some way. Take my word for it.Sometime again I was in a catholic church attending a Sunday mass and this church belongs to the fransican frias some where in Bavaria , a lady next to me refused to shake hands during the time required for everybody to do so.Immediately afterwards she went for holy communion. She kept her hand bag all the time.I was given a wrong prescription of eye glasses before by older Doctor,only to return there a year later ,thesame Doctor was questioning who gave it to me, these time I was with my Mrs. That's what made the difference,if you go alone sometimes you will be mishandled , only when one of them is with you,,then the rest will pretend you are accepted.
Interracial couples
diposting oleh T Y di forum Jerman
Interesting you mentioned it. I am in an interracial relationship. the other day we went to karstadt and decided to grab lunch at the restaurant on the top floor. While we were eating, I noticed almost 50% of the people in the restaurant were constantly staring at us with strong disapproval and hatred, not just peeking! Yes it was very creepy! Sure they were mostly older Germans, but they also brought up their kids with the same mind set, and it continues to be that way. and it was just one of the countless uncomfortable moments that occur on a daily basis in Germany.
as for Sarrazin's book, it couldn't have become a bestseller if so many Germans didn't agree with him. Being racist doesn't always mean you'd beat up minorities and burn their home down. But that's the definition of racism for Germans, that's why they don't admit it.
another excuse
diposting oleh Pengguna yang sudah dihapus di forum Jerman
T Y: "excuses like "racists are everywhere" or "it's not worse than UK, France, etc," are getting just too lame."
i totally agree with you about this. i don't like the excuses that some germans make about racism either but i do appreciate the progress they have made.
you can see intercultural couples here and there - if all germans were racist, then that wouldn't be acceptable let alone possible :)to continue your argument about the npd - they are just a small part of the problem!
the current government coalition is just as bad. didn't thilo sarrazin write that infamous book about integration and say something incredibly ignorant about the turkish and apparently 80% of the german population agreed with the book?! (someone needs to confirm that. i only heard it from someone else).in case you're not familiar with sarrazin... he wrote a book on integration, which destroyed his political career because he wrote something along the lines that the turkish nation are genetically inferior (to put it diplomatically). i expect his next book will be about the aryan race.
i don't think the entire federal government consists of racists but i find it hard to believe that he was the only one. there's no way his political career would have survived for so long and politicians are lobbyists so... yeah... that might explain why germany doesn't feel so international compared to the US or UK.
i don't see germany's integration problems disappearing in the next 25 years so this topic is going to stay open for a long time xD
in conclusion...
there are racists everywhere in every country but there are way more racists in germanic speaking countries due to political influences....
diposting oleh John Lovejoy di forum Jerman
Actually Switzerland and Austria is much worse than Germany and more open about it, but get far less ridicule than Germany.
France is unashamed about the Muslim face veil banning and continued persecution of the Roma and Gypsies. Switzerland has banned the building of minarets.
In all the polls, the German population champions the same measures by an overwhelming majority but their government is hesitant because of political correctness and Germany’s visibility on the world stage.Not just NPD
diposting oleh T Y di forum Jerman
Of course they conveniently blame NPD for everything racism related to advoid facing the true color of ordinary racist germans. I wouldn't be surprised if there were protests even within CDU against having him running as a CDU.
Germans have to start accepting the fact that Germany is not ready for multiculturalism and making ordinary Germans happy first.
...
diposting oleh John Lovejoy di forum Jerman
But there is something disingenuous about the excuses why he had to step down.
The NPD, open and proud of racism is a tiny fringe group and does not wield the influence claimed in the report.
It’s the large number of people who secretly consider a black man unacceptable but won’t voice their concerns openly.
That the police could not protect him is a farce.
If they say that they cannot protect this one guy, how can they protect any politician in Germany?
He simply did not have the support.
But it’s much easier to blame it on the NPD.