Şurada gönderildi Almanya forumu
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
MMMM
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Carolina Carolina : Almanya forumu
La pregunta racismo es muy difícil de contestar ya que la perspectiva varía dependiendo del ángulo desde donde se mire, leí muchas opiniones aquí en el foro antes de escribir, de hecho algunas del 2009 y todos tienen razón dependiendo de, y respectando suss punto de vista, PERO la clave para dar una respuesta es QUIÉN LO DIGA, si preguntas a una persona de piel "blanca" que no es alemana sobre el racismo en Alemania, se va a basar en la nacionalidad, en el acento, bla, bla, pero si preguntas a una persona de piel "morena-negra-oscura (como sea tu costumbre llamarla)" allí encontraras una respuesta -respuesta porque el de piel blanca rápidamente puede camuflarse entre muchas personas, pero el de piel morena? Ajá, brilla por su presencia. TODO ESTO PARA DECIR QUE SOY UNA MUJER MORENA- NEGRA-OSCURA, DE COLOMBIA y precisamente en este momento (pero ya a finales de mayo regreso a mi país) estoy en Alemania de turismo, y tengo que decir que SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII hay muchísimo racismo en Alemania, como dice Crisis ellos no te van a atacar pero con sus miradas si te hacen sentir que eres más o menos una mierd..... En mi caso personal todos me miran para bien o para mal, me miran por mi color, me miran porque sin modestia soy una morena muy bonita, con una dentadura que para Alemania es más que perfecta, en mi país soy adicta al gym (gimnasio) y no me gusta andar mal vestida, entonces, me miran por mi ropa distinta, me miran por mi color, algunos hombres no me miran mal, algunas mujeres me han sonreido (pero no en burla sino amablemente, aparentemente), pero otras y otros vaya experiencia, plantan su mirada hasta que te hacen sentir mal, y como dato curioso que no sé si reir o llorar, les digo que los que más te hacen sentir mal, como bicho, como extranjero, como negro.............SON LOS NINOS, al final todos temiran asombrados pero si estas muy cerca de ellos.............Válgame Dios.
Tenía una idea vaga del racimos en Alemania antes de venir pero me dije a mi misma, es SU problema no el mío, si a ellos les incomoda entonces que se enfermen de la úlcera ellos, pero yo vivo mi vida y sigo mi camino, a las personas que mi novio me ha presentado no sé por dentro pero aparentemente les he caido bien.Siempre lo he dicho en mi pais y lo seguiré diciendo en la China y en la Conchinchina y Alemania no es la excepción, a mí réctame y menospreciame con intelecto, con conocimiento, con inteligencia, con razonamiento, pero no con bobaditas de color, esto no destine papá. Y lastima que los negros todavía se dejen humillar o se ofendan porque alguien los mira o los trata mal, pero a mí que me esculquen, lastima que la sociedad no permite tantos arquitectos negros famosos, o sino, sabrían de mi y entonces les preguntaría: Como le díje alguna vez a una tonta secretaría en una oficina donde trabajé qued desde el primer día en que llegué comenzó a mirarme por encima de su hombro, ella no sabía qué hacía yo allí pero mientras lo supo siempre era su mirada rayada, hasta que un día me acerqué y le pregunté, tiene algún problema conmigo? Y ella muy egocéntrica me dice: Es que no es normal ver negros aquí, no esperaba su respuesta pues pensé que al interrogarla se sentiría avergonzada, pero con muchas ganas me lo ha dicho (tal vez pensó que iría por la vacantedel café y los banos); yo inmediatamente le contesté: Ah que bueno, pero pienso que me van a contrartar, así que de ahora en adelante será normal aquí y para usted, soy la nueva arquitecta que trabajará con el arquitecto Gracía Y USTED PIENSO SERÁ TAMBIÉN MI SECRETARÍA. Y cuando teminó el día laborarl, al salir le dije: que raro, yo negra pero arquitecta y usted blanca pero secretaria, irónico no? Pienso, ella pensó, por qué no se abre la tierra para ocultarme allí. Desde ese momento nunca la saludé a llegar a la empresa, ella me hablaba y siempre decía o.k., gracias, puede retirarse, no con grocería, JAMAS,es solo que no soy rencorosa pero quería demostrarle que la próxima vez que quisiera usar sus ínfulas de color, lo pensara dos veces y que sí, las oficinas está llena de "blancos" y los bancos son una mierd.....(Nunca ves a un negro en los cajeros... y no es que no hayan negros profesionales para ocupar el cargo, es solo que...........Solo quería decir silenciosamente a ella que los de piel negra no siempre estarán abajo para que ellos alimenten su ego. Jajajaajaja no estoy enojada de verdad, es solo que no invierto mi tiempo en si una alemana me menosprecia o no,, es ella, es su problema, no es mí problema, mientras no me toque, no tengo problema jajaajajaja. Un abrazo.
not sure..
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
Not sure it can ever be the same, since the US was started by people coming from other countries, there is really not one country only that it roots to.
Unless you take into account Native Americans, but where are they today anyway? such a small percentage of the population that they don't even really count.
No matter how many more years, Germany will never be a country that started out with immigrants :-)
speaking of languages
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
have you seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-w0-lZldWA
:-)
Yes, my kids used to watch Dora, too...
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
...but on the German channels it seems to run only in German/English- so I´ll definitely try to get my hands on the original then.
Spanish has only recently been introduced on a greater scale at German schools and I am learning it at the moment as a hobby.The integration of words from other languages into German is a good sign, I think. It shows that the German language is alive and kicking. There even seem to be real "fads" for one language or the other: Latin and Greek in the Middle Ages, in the 18th century French, then later on English, Polish and now Turkish.
I tend to pick up some smattering from my pupils, too- it´s just that I am really hopeless when it comes to Asian languages. When I want to amuse my Chinese pupils I just have to try to say something in Cantonese- gets them ROTFL every time.USA
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
i lived in the US for a few years too. you're totally right about assimilating into local society G N. it does make a difference!
but to be honest... i did find it easier to assimilate into USA. i just felt accepted there, whilst in Germany i feel like i'm intruding. (and i speak German :P)
let's look at the history to explain things, shall we? :)
USA has a rich multicultural background, which pretty much started 200 years ago with the native Americans, pilgrims, etc. Let's not forget the slave trade and Martin Luther King. Many revolutionary things happened in America, which makes it feel so multicultural.
i don't know what germany was like in the 1800s but i imagine it was like England but with less colonies. also there were the world wars, and the reunification of east and west... so i think germany only started welcoming foreigners around 60 years ago.
so to conclude...
america has about 200 years and germany has about 60 years of multicultural history.so give Germany 140 years more to catch up :D
slightly off topic, but
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi T Y : Almanya forumu
we have Quebec separatists in Canada, but they never get enough support to actually become independent. and Canadians still love to go to Quebec.
it works here, we can have differences and speak different languages, but we don't have to hate each other so much. everyone grew up with people of all kinds of backgrounds, so it takes less effort to implement multiculturalism in Canada.
but to say, "hey, that's cool, let's try that in Germany too, then we will look very international!", it just doesn't work that way. same goes for most of the European countries. what Europe needs is more sovereign independent states rather than united Europe because every culture is so rooted that they can't be amended. and if it's not for the distinct culture of each European nation, what makes Europe so attractive then? and why should they unite at all?
Spain should become at least form something similar to the initial idea of "united states." (sorry, federalism destroyed it by now in the US) and they should be managed in state level, and become friends with each other again and become trade partners.
this notion of forcing all kinds of cultures / people into one Union or country, is nothing like different people coming to one place to be a part of the country, especially when the people of the host nation are refusing immigrants.
of course!
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi T Y : Almanya forumu
of course a massive exodus would be just impossible, but I don't believe there can ever be a soft landing to a common solution to the racism issue in Germany. the government is waiting for so called multiculturalism to magically find its way to a new harmonious Germany.
I don't think Germans will ever find an acceptable compromise to live with foreigners happily ever after. it takes a very radical approach to change the status quo especially in a country like Germany, until then, meaning not in our life time, immigrants won't be treated as a part of German society.
of course that's not limited to Germany, racism is on the rise in many other European countries now.
and where you like it or not, Germans (or the nanny State they have believed in) built Germany for themselves. ultimately Germans will have to decide whether to include or segregate immigrants.
integration takes more than participation of the immigrants. there needs to be a radical change coming from the people of Germany.
exactly
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
exactly what I was saying about the languages.
Some Basques don't want to be part of Spain, some do, some do but still feel they are superior to the rest. I blame it on the language. If there was no language but Spanish, I think the problems would be less.
Again because a language signals an identity different from the rest.
Some Spaniards also will think all Basques support the terrorists there and of course that will offend the Basques that don't. And already friction has been created.
Of course, the Basques were there all along, the Turks came in in the past. So not sure how much of a similarity that will be.
Same for Barcelona and the soccer team , now they are playing the champions (when is it BTW?), some Spaniards will support them some will not, and when they win ( ;-) ) Barcelona will probably say that Catalonia has won but not Spain because no Spanish team was playing. Again, friction. Madrid will say that they are not Spanish so screw them, don't want them to win. Of course some in Catalonia wanted to remove Spanish as a co official language and put French instead.
Friction again :-)
basques?
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi T Y : Almanya forumu
when I was studying French in France, I had a really good friend from Basque on the Spain side. we also had a group of Spanish students. they spoke Spanish to each other, but there definitely was a tension that was felt easily.
I imagine Turkish / German relation is somewhat similar to Basque / Spanish relation. both parties have reasons to hate the other.
Europe is crumbling anyways. sooner than we can imagine, it'll all go back to where it was before the EU. at least I hope that's the direction EU is heading.
that's sad
Şu kişi tarafından gönderildi Silinmiş kişi : Almanya forumu
well it is sad if that is the case. I got it from the comments that they don't like foreigners in general, though having levels among foreigners.
I guess I'll find out how it is for me when/if I get there.
I don't think it would be like that in Spain, I think if you behave like you are from Spain, then you are. I mean taking the culture, not keeping your own and speaking perfect Spanish. But I haven't lived there for years, so maybe it's different now.