Geplaatst in Duitsland forum
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
Buenos días
geplaatst door John Lovejoy in Duitsland forum
@G.N.
America is easy to assimilate because it’s not a mono culture and they make you feel welcome by not singling you out or treating you different.
Everybody is from somewhere else or a descendant of immigrants.
So it’s easy to assimilate and to, to use your words become a fan but you don’t have to.
No pressure.
You also don’t have to give up being proud of you Spanish heritance to be a good equally accepted American.
It’s a totally none issue and you can also be as Spanish as want to be.
You can also speak crappy English and in some regions don’t even need it all.
We don’t have an official language.
English is just the easiest for people to communicate.
With 50.5 million Hispanics, Spanish is the 2nd most used language.Oh yeah, can’t tell you how often I have heard in Germany that the US is a racist nation usually from people that don’t speak any English and or have never been there.
Makes you wonder about their media and education system.
( I can’t watch German TV anymore , though I understand the language.
They narrate as if you where a child or not too bright in the attic.
IMHO It’s kind of insulting talking to adults like that).Germany is harder because there is little respect for your or other cultures.
You are expected to give that up, pay homage to theirs and your worth or standing in the German community is determined by how fast and well you can Germanize yourself.
So compared to the US it’s a more one sided relationship.
But also depends on what kind a crowd you’re hanging with.Edit
P.S. Just like Naija guy said your skin tone/ethnicity is kind of the first thing people tend to see in Germany and judge you by when they don’t know you.
To put this in context, everything exterior is also judged in Germany.
From you clothing, how you dress, keep yourself, carry yourself, what kind of a car you drive, where you live ect. and determines how people treat you at first sight…not just your skin color.Language
geplaatst door T Y in Duitsland forum
I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I do speak German. Passed the language test at Uni Bonn, too in order to study in Germany. So do most foreigners living in Germany. When they came to Germany, they also had hopes and dreams. otherwise why did they move?
And there are foreigners who accept it for what it is. And yes, if they don't like it, then should leave. But some people are in Germany for different reasons, and they can't just leave. It may require them to divorce their spouses, quit their day jobs, abandon their families, etc before they leave the country for good.
And I have lived in other European countries and visited East European countries as well. I was well adjusted in any of those situations. Yes I saw racists, too. But the rest of the time i spent in those countries, it was mostly a very positive experience to say the least. So I couldn't care less about the neo nazi kids. I speak enough French and Italian to even get by fine in Spain as well if wanted to. I learned Spanish pretty well from Latinos I met in Germany. And I've made many friends in Europe. And I can only speak for myself and share my own experience. In fact, that's all we are doing. To me, living in Germany is really one of a kind experience, very "uniquely distinct" and not a pleasant one, not because of a small number of the neo nazis, but because of the nature of ordinary Germans. You may have a different interpretation, which would be just as relevant as anyone else's.
I suggest you visit Germany first, perhaps taking languages classes to stay there a little longer to determine if you like it, before deciding to move to Germany.
but is it really like that?
geplaatst door Verwijderde gebruiker in Duitsland forum
I've been thinking about moving to Germany and you guys are scaring me a bit, but, at the same time, I think it may be your interpretation and not reality.
I am from Spain but have lived in the US for many years. I have never, ever, never, not once from one person, experienced any kind of discrimination in the US, and I do have a strong accent.
But, I have friends from Spain or South American here that say that Americans are racist. Interestingly enough, these are people that don't speak English at an acceptable level, and that keep watching the channels in Spanish instead of just the American ones (same for buying books in Spanish instead of English). People that will say, we are not like them (the Americans).
To me that's not that Americans are racist, if you don't want to assimilate, they can't force you, but don't ask them to like it or you. I am from Spain myself and I am upset at going to the store and seeing everything in English and Spanish, very disrespectful and we know who to blame for it.
So I'm wondering if this may be the case in Germany too. I think when you go live in a country you should be that country's biggest fan, and work very hard to adapt to it. I think not trying to adapt and then saying they don't accept you because they are racist is stupid. They don't accept you because you don't have respect for their country.
Anyway, I don't know how it really is in Germany, but I threw in my US experience and would like to know what you think.
I am also of the opinion that you love it or leave it, for any country, and I don't think that is xenophobic at all, it just makes sense.
not in the blood
geplaatst door T Y in Duitsland forum
I think you are taking our comments PERSONALLY. when we bitch about Germans, it's more of sharing our personal experiences that actually happened. there's no need to deny it. facts are facts. so you may not be a racist, but you are not the majority. all we are saying is, we experienced unpleasant incidents (that can be defined as racism in other countries), more often than in any other countries. that's all. and I agree, it's not in the German blood as I know many Canadians with German origin. and I never implied it either. and they are nothing like the Germans I met in Germany. as I said before, it's in the upbringing. racism is taught and learned at home, at school, and in everyday life. and you are defending the Germans because you may not be a right wing racist. we aren't talking about you, but other Germans, which you don't have any control over. let's just say it's not your fault if other Germans act like racists. but we are just swapping stories.
but I do have a problem with the German foreign / immigration policies rather than the Germans. we tend to discuss the matter as if multiculturalism were the future for every country. it isn't, at least most countries are not ready for it, and I'm saying it's a OK. but if the government forces multi-kulti on its people while deceiving the immigrants, then it pisses me off because both Germans and the foreigners are under the illusion that there's this functional multiculturalism already in place in German society that's what's to be expected in Germany. it just isn't so. your government wants to look good in the international stage, trying to mask the past.
in many of commonwealth nations, immigration became part of its culture, and it's been so long and they are already so diverse that everyone benefits from multiculturalism, whereas Germany, France or Japan, just for the sake of having an example, has already established a very particular distinct culture and the majority of the people are used to it, and I personally appreciate every one of them. and they don't need the multiculturalism, they can do fine without it. but in case they WANT to become a multicultural society, then it has to come from the people, without becoming brainwashed believing multi-kulti is the only way to go and the ultimate utopia, and to stay politically correct. and at what cost? I don't expect Germans to be friendly to foreigners since they didn't want to have so many Ausländer there to begin with. and I'm not talking about you, per se, but from my experience and from what I've heard from many others, majority of the Germans, of course with exceptions, are not too fond of the current immigration policy. this is why they seem rather reluctant to deal with foreigners. and I'm saying that's alright, it's just the result of government manipulation. but the government needs to respond to that sentiment. no Ausländer nor many Germans (may not be you, but many other) are happy. there are reasons why Sarrazin's book became a bestseller. and I read somewhere that 80% of Germans would be just fine without Ausländer in Germany.
and I personally feel strongly about every nation's sovereignty. if the government respected the sentiment of its people, they would be a lot more content, therefore a little friendlier towards Ausländer. and only THEN Ausländer would feel comfortable in your country. but keeping throwing tax payers' money at the problem will only anger the people who in turn hate Ausländer even more.
and while I can appreciate you defending your country because you don't want to be called a racist, in reality, it's not a constructive way to go about it. you have to realize that Germans are screaming for more German identity in Germany. it doesn't have to be in a form of racism. many Germans feel they are under threat. Germany needs a fundamental change in immigration policy to stop this vicious cycle. and the first step is to stop advertising itself as a Ausländer-friendly multicultural country that welcomes everyone.
I've never seen so many angry aggressive Turks in Germany though Turks I met in Canada, or Muslims for that matter, are nothing like them. I can't help but wonder what made them so hostile. it's not in their blood or culture. I believe it's because of how they've been treated in Germany. they are targeted. that's why they hate it in Germany. Germany needs to fix that before allowing even more immigrants because obviously your country is not capable of keeping immigrants happy, and not to mention all the pissed Germans because of the immigrants.
and yes, my partner is a German who's under the impression that Germany has no issues with racism, or not worse than other countries. she's wrong according to my experience.
In case you are thinking people like me and John are exerggerating the situation, No, we aren't dreaming. It takes more than a few bad apples to keep Auslaender out of the society.
http://www.npr.org/tablet/#story/?storyId=130649146
Well, TY...wasn´t going to say that...
geplaatst door Verwijderde gebruiker in Duitsland forum
...I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me. I never doubted that there are racists in Germany, I just took exception to your claim that the great majority of Germans are racists or that it is somehow worse here than in other countries. I´ve been around Europe a lot and I have found shockingly racist people everywhere, from Britain to Poland to France and back, but I cannot say for any of these countries that they were a majority.
Somewhere in this forum, don´t know which thread, someone wrote how we Germans "have it in our blood" to be racist and how we are still convinced of being the master race. Now come on, I think I have a right to be offended by that. Shouldn´t you be offended by that too, I mean you stated time and again how racism sucks ass?I do not see racism in other countries as an excuse, racism in Germany offends me rather more than in other countries. But as I said elsewhere, in my daily experience at a very multicultural school, I witness something else, i.e. the transformation of Germany into a multicultural society. I myself lived in a binational marriage, my brother-in-law´s sister is married to an Ivorian man, my little son´s best mate is a boy from Nigeria, so I don´t think I have to take it quietly if persons in this forum tar us all with the same brush.(and btw, I just classified these persons for your sake, in everyday life I see them as family or extended family and do not see them defined only by their origin) And I don´t think having a different opinion from yours qualifies as racist.
What do you think?
BTW:
As you mentioned that you are in an interracial relationship, might I ask if your partner is German?No surprise there
geplaatst door T Y in Duitsland forum
Sounds like just another ordinary day for a visible minority surviving in Germany.
Let's wait for Germans to join in to say "that's unheard of! How dare you making up stories like that!" LOL. Or "it's not unusual for Germans to point finger at others and yell in public. it's just a cultural difference. So don't call us racists!"
...
geplaatst door John Lovejoy in Duitsland forum
Just came from the local store …..
When little kids tag at their parent’s arms, point and yell” Mamma, Mamma kuck mal, ein Neger” when encountering an African person in public
( Mom, mom look there’s a nigger)
That’s definitely learned at home.
To be fair many also may not be aware how offensive this really is.lol
geplaatst door Verwijderde gebruiker in Duitsland forum
hahahaha yeah!!! i totally know the lottery feeling at the 'buro' xD
and sadly, i also know the feeling of being treated better whilst being accompanied by a native.
makes me wonder though... do english speaking countries (uk, usa, au, ca) treat foreigners (who speak shit english) the same way?
do not agree
geplaatst door Verwijderde gebruiker in Duitsland forum
I am from Germany and I do not agree with this stupid book. I have not read it and will not.
But I read your stories and I hope one day you feel well in Germany and no one say stupid things to you all.
But I have to say I feel unwell when somebody looks at me, too. For me it is not important which person, if my boyfriend, my sister, a friend or a stranger. I am feeling like I have something in my face, but now I want do something against this that you do not fell unwell because of me.
I hope with you and your maybe childs, we can create a open Germany.
Sabrinaspeaking of speaking up
geplaatst door T Y in Duitsland forum
@John, BTW, your story reminded me of one occasion. I went to a bar in Toronto. the crowd was very mixed and the air had rather international flair. with no mean intention, this Mexican guy said to a German tourist, "I know a couple of German phrases. Wie geht's and Heil Hitler!" he was immediately criticized by other immigrants and Canadians alike, visible minorities defending the German guy just because it was wrong. I call it humanity. but sometimes it does take the majority to create the environment for everyone to speak up. and in Germany with the Germans being the majority, it can be tough to speak up against their open racism.