Posted in Germany forum
Hello All, I hope someone who had the same experience or info could her me here. I am holding a working holiday visa and was in Germany for already 8 months. After some training/internship, my company is offering me a 1 year contract. Since they are not allowed to hire me as internal staff, I only get a contractor/freelancer contract. I went to the Ausländerbehröde and met different officer there, and everyone gave me different answer. At the beginning, they said I need to apply it from HK and it will take around 6-8 weeks. Some said I need to go to the Arbeitamt to get a paper to show that my employment is accepted by Germany government. And finally another officer just gave me a form and said I could apply it in Germany. However, that is a form for employee, which they said it is not my case (as I am a freelancer, my company is not my employer...).
They have been pointing me around for 2 months, I am very frustrated by this bureaucracy and do not know who can tell me what I should do. I would appreciate very much if someone here could give me a little suggestion or information...
Thank you very much!
Freelance/contract
posted by J C in Germany forum
Hello Amy,
From reading your messages, I can see you mean good and want to do the right thing. The best thing to do is to go to an immigration lawyer. He or she will have the right information to give you. It might cost you but in the long run it will save you time and stress. The other thing is, you dont need 200,000euro to form a GmbH. A GmbH starts from 25,000euro.
If in the end you go back to your country and didnt get the work permit. You should them form a company, as an UG, not as a GmbH. An UG is like Ltd company, but you will need and German citizen to do it with. Talk to a notar about that. Stop getting running around. Good luck....
Employment/Self-Employment
posted by engelchen + in Germany forum
Amy,
I think the reason you're having so much difficultly is that you haven't quite grasped the difference between employment and self-employment.You are employed and want to continue to be employed, but are trying to apply as a freelancer to circumvent immigration employment rules. The authorities can't help you since according to the information you've provided you need an employment permit (for which you'd require an employment contract) not a freelance permit.
Now that the authorities know what you're trying to do, they'll be scrutinising any freelance application you file. With a good lawyer, you might be able to obtain a freelance permit, but there is no guarantee. If your employer wants you to keep working for them, let them hire a lawyer to sort the problem out for you.
Re:
posted by Sansan Amy in Germany forum
Hello All,
Thank you so much for the replies!
Martin, It's correct for all what you said- 1st company cannot hire internals so they give a project contract to 2nd company with my name, so this 2nd company gives me a ''contractor'' contract. Not possible for them to ''hire'' me as employee because I do not have a work permit. (another chicken first or egg first...and 2nd company needs to have a chicken with already eggs) So englchen is also correct on description of my situation. One thing I am most frustrated is, from the every beginning in every document I had with me, we already mentioned that I will be a contractor but not employee, i have the feeling that they do not know about this/not willing to handle it and therefore passed me around to different departments...
@englchen, do you know what is the normal procedure or documents (besides contracts) to apply for this freelancer permit? Is ausländerbehörde in my area is the right place? one thing I concern is that, some officer said I cannot change the visa inside germany, therefore i should go back to my homecountry and apply it via consulate... i have doubt in this as well.
thanks again!
Amy
Clarification for Martin
posted by engelchen + in Germany forum
Although I agree with everything in your post, I think you missed a critical point.
The OP has a one year non-renewal WHV for Germany and has some type of employment contract with her current company. Now that her permit is close to expiring they are looking for a way to extend their working relationship. The problem is that the company does not want to offer her an employment contract and wants her to freelance for them. The solution you suggested won't work because she doesn't have an open work permit and cannot receive a permit to work through an agency as a "Leiharbeiter".
She needs to either apply for a permit to freelance (and most Ausländerbehörden require a minimum of two contracts for freelance applications) or she needs an employment contract from her company (for a position for which she could pass the Vorrangprüfung).
I think the reason she is having so much trouble filing an application is that when she describes to the authorities what she wants to do, they all consider her to be an employee and advise her accordingly.
2nd part
posted by Martin C in Germany forum
simple and standard.
Sorry, accidentally sent half a sentence earlier.
Ok, let me know what happens and take good care.
Martincontractor
posted by Martin C in Germany forum
Hi Amy,
Sorry for late reply, I kind of accidentally ended up on this page as I was interested in renting out a place and I just replied to your question because I thought it was obvious.
Now I do not understand this any more: The first company goes through a second company to hire you but the second company still does not offer you employment??? This does not make sense and is certainly not normal!
The usual problem is that a company is not in a position to offer direct employment to a person and therefore goes thru a provider i.e. Manpower, Adecco, Brunel etc. Then the provider hires the person and so becomes the employer. The person is then sent to the first company and the provider charges a fee to them.This is normal and can happen for a number of reasons. The first company may have a project of limited duration or the head office has imposed an employment stopp etc.
But the important thing is that the provider becomes the employer offering all that is legally required, also paying 50% of your health insurance, offering vacation, etc.
If this is not the case and you still end up as a contractor, there must be a different reason, i.e. you are not on their vendor list or something silly. In that case my advice would be to find a provider offering employment to you and go to the first company through them. This doesn´t make any difference to the first company and it should be really easy to find a provider as you are bringing your client with you. Check out the Yellow Pages in the area and you will find loads of them. Unfortunately, there will be some pretty bad ones also. Try to check the web for references maybe.
It is also possible that we´re getting the translations mixed up, are they talking about a contract in German? Have you seen it? Do you hold a copy? Do you want to anonymize it and let me have a look at it? Or mail to me privately?
Anyway, I do not clearly understand the situation right now and therefore it is difficult to say what to do for visa. With an employment contract it becomes rather
advice through the advocate
posted by kumsl sadfrg in Germany forum
i think you must get the advice throught the advocate or go back to your country and come back withe contract and re apply it for rejoining
Re:
posted by Sansan Amy in Germany forum
Hello Martin,
My contract said I am a "contractor". So the company who offer this said they are not my employer. They are big firm but they do not offer other type of contract.
I am in NRW,I just need the officer to take my application and go to process. But everytime they said I need to go to another officer. I am really fratuated.
Hope there could be more advice :)
Thanks a lot
Amyfreelance
posted by Martin C in Germany forum
Hi Amy,
You are not a freelancer. You said that you found a company (service provider) offering you a contract. This is your employer now. They will pay you a salary and all payments to the system will be automatically deducted. You will have to apply for a visa, work permit with this contract. It is important that your contract is a normal German employment contract, otherwise visa may be denied.
This visa will be dependent on the job, if you change it, you must inform the authorities.
Some friends of mine from CN work like this in Germany, so shouldn't be any different for you.If you are really self employed, things change and I do not know the exact rules and regulations, but you certainly do not have to come up with 200.000,-...
What company is this service provider? Big player or a small unknown name?
Let me know if I did understand the situation correctly or if you need more info.
Which area are you moving to btw?
Take care
Martin
Re: Permit for freelancer
posted by Sansan Amy in Germany forum
Hello Alex,
Thank you for the info. As I have a contractor contract, it is consider that I have my only business? Do you mean I need a company or some registration? They have mentioned 200,000€ capital for a GmbH which I don't know if that is even the case.
Would be really thankful for answer as I also don't want anyone being fool around like I was.
Amy